Speed Cameras: The War Begins
South Coast speed cameras are being targetted by a group similar to one operating in the U.K. which has destroyed cameras with bombs and by burning them.
Congratulations to whoever stuffed up these two cameras, one in North Wollongong which was blocked using metal drink cans and one on the F6 which was shot at with a gun.
The people have had enough: these cursed bits of technology are there only to fill government coffers. They don't stop road deaths, they don't stop people speeding. You lose points off your licence and even if you take it to court and win, the RTA still will not remove those points.
As well, you can't cross-examine a speed camera in court so you're stuffed.
A notorious camera in Balgownie recorded several parked cars at 80kph - the picture even showed that they were parked at the time - and a very old truck which couldn't get up to 50kph even downhill was clocked at 120kph. The people whose vehicles were photographed allegedly doing these speeds have had their day in court and have won - but they still have to wear the points penalty.
No-one can say that speed cameras are 100% accurate. The whole system is unfair and has never been adopted in countries such as the U.S. where there has been a public outcry against them. We in Australia have to become more vocal about things that are taking away every freedom that we have. Many people now feel they can't leave their driveway as they are on maximum licence points and fear being got by one of these evil inaccurate speed cameras.
Having to take the matter to court isn't fair either - you either do it yourself and probably lose, or employ a legal representative at $400 per day and probably don't get costs even if you win. It's a lose-lose situation.
So good on you guys, keep up the great work. Shoot them, blow them up, burn them, stuff them with cans, spray paint them - remember they are cameras so wear a hood and gloves - don't you get caught now.
Power to the people and the N.S.W. state government can go to hell.
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This is a dodgy, and risky
This is a bad post.
cameras help safety just by education including your post here, and yes I do drive for a living with a long list of parking and other minor traffic infractions. And I travel down to the south preriodically.
is a fools game, wastes fuel, yes it is revenue raising but it is also for
safety, which can’t be denied
weekend the govt announced potential 3 demerit points for using a bus lane
at George, Elizabeth or Parramatta Rd from memory in Sydney, and a fine of
$220. For a traffic offense with no safety dimension but a lot of public
transport gridlock issues. But 3 demerit points? That’s worth complaining
about not cameras as such.
are effectively encouraging vandalism which will really annoy most
sensible taxpayers out there, including with a gun which who knows where
or what its been carred for. Hunting in State Forests? Not a very popular
mob around this site.
5. You are drawing the attention of the authorities who
could well want to shut down this site for promoting illegality? I am surprised
and heartily disappointed the moderators even put it on as a feature. Very,
very silly. I suggest they reconsider.
Cameras and Faux Safety
Speeding is not such a big deal as it gets made out to be. Sure, if one car is doing 20kph faster than all the other cars on the road then that's dangerous but if there are hardly any other cars on the road and conditions are good then that's a different story. They have these stupid posters "there's no such thing as safe speeding"... well in that case how come so many cops speed? Hmmm? What about ambulances, how come they speed too? But there's no such thing as safe speeding... the poster says so. What a crock.
Strangely, a road that used to be "safe" at 80kph is suddenly only "safe" at 70kph, and it's the same road as it was yesterday. But there's no such thing as safe speeding, so how is this possible?
Speeding is easy to measure and it makes good revenue but making a big deal over speeding just makes it easy to ignore all of the things that are more dangerous. When was the last time someone got a fine for tail gating? I see drivers sitting 1m off someone's back bumper in the M5 tunnel doing 80kph. No way could they stop in time if something went wrong... but it must be OK because they are doing the speed limit.
What about drivers that can't merge (or won't, or just don't care)? In the same M5 tunnel, I've seen breakdowns in the left lane where they mark the lane with a flashing warning for a long, long way ahead and about 95% of the drivers are sensible and merge across to avoid the breakdown. Then there's always one or two who will zip down the left to get ahead a few spaces while everyone else is merging across. These bastards deliberately merge late and jam themseves in within spitting distance of the breakdown crew. What are you going to do? If you don't let them in then you put yourself at risk as well as everyone else. If you do let them in then they think they are "smart" for pushing ahead and they do it next time, and the time after. When did someone get busted for being a dickhead when it comes to merging?
Then there's people who play "chicken" on roundabouts by shooting into the roundabout at speed rather than slowing down and giving way to the right. If they get in quick enough then when there's an accident they can claim it was the other guy's fault because they got into the roundabout first.
Hey, this stuff is all OK... so long as they aren't speeding, no problem!
Cops are lazy, the RTA is lazy and the courts are lazy. Trying to enforce good driving habits requires cops who are out there paying close attention to what goes on and hauling in people for antisocial behaviour. It requires courts who are willing to look at the issues and use some common sense. Instead... there are just four things that you can get busted for on NSW roads: speeding, drink driving, going through a red light and not wearing a seatbelt. Those are all the things that the cops ever crack down on. If you don't get caught for those then do whatever the hell you like because no one cares. OK, you might get a parking fine.
Are the cameras going to save us? Well there are cameras on every street corner through the city... they don't seem to be fixing the problem yet. The M4 has cameras on every single light pole from Parramatta to Granville... there must be at least 50 video cameras in a row. If you take a train, the "Lemon" trains (the ones that use too much power and break down all the time) have about 10 cameras per carriage which are supposedly for our safety.
So tell me, if someone gets beat-up by transit police... are the railways going to publish that video showing a person betting beaten up? Whoever has the control over the video data is the one with the power and that will never be the public. There always seems to be some fantastic excuse why ordinary people are never allowed to see to footage from these cameras. The result is a totally one-sided situation and we are paying for it.
That's not even starting to consider the tracking and control of political opponents which is inevitably where it will end up.
Now I'm not saying that smashing the cameras is going to solve anything... but we do need to get the message across to everyone that if we are going to have cameras, the footage must be made public in its entirety. If we are too scared for the footage to be public then that is an admission that we sould not have the camera at all because there is no one who can be trusted with such a power and no public scrutiny to keep then under control.
We also need a brains-first approach to solving crime and letting a machine do your thinking for you is just an excuse to be lazy and turn your own brain off. That's where police work is going in Australia. Besides, corruption is a far more significant problem than speeding -- spend the money and effort fighting corruption and get a better return.
As for guns... remember the three pillars of Democracy: ballot box, jury box, cartridge box. Gun control is anti-democracy, it's as simple as that. Look at the history of Democracy and you will see that any society based on an elite fighting force with the common folk disarmed will be undemocratic. Go right back to Athens and Sparta, the answer is right there.
Booked for going through yellow light
I was pulled up by the Police for going through a Yellow light, I didn't have the time to stop before the stop line, the rules state that you can not stop in an intersection so you must go through. so I went it to Court. You know what the police did to win the case? Answer, they doctored the In Car Video! and perjured themselves.
Police, gota love em
Illegal Issues?
so you think it is ok for the RTA to use Photographic evidence to take money and your demerit points off you when the normal person cannot use photographs as evidence in any court. Also with camera offences you are guilty until proven innocent this is another problem with the system. You seem to be the kind of person that would consent to a microchip being placed on your body so the government can locate you whenever they press a button. What is happening to human rights????????????
Re: Illegal Issues?
i agree, too many losers here get sexually aroused by the government pushing them around. fuck you all. fuck the law, fuck the government.
the other day I got a parking ticket...for paying to park. first of all, i don't agree with the whole system of having to pay the government money so i can park my car, but i still obeyed big brother and payed to park. I come back, with an hour left on my park timer and still i have a parking ticket. fuck them i'm not paying.
Parking and moving your car
Article in today's Herald says if you move your car before a 2 hour parking limit expires, and then re-park it within the same 2-hour limit area, they can still book you, even though you re-parked in a different spot. Yeah fuck them.
Re: Illegal Issues?
You should pay through the nose for every square millimeter of public space your precious automobile consumes.
Who else gets grab a free piece of public space at their every whim but motorists? Cars a the biggest waste of space and money in the developed world. Our city is choking on the greed of motorists.
Get on your bike and Reclaim The Streets !
lasty, some sympathy
Traffic fines are very painful, no doubt about it, especially down the lower socio economic end of the scale. I think a pensioner discount is called for in some situations. I know how it feels believe me. But live and learn, that's the best answer.
Also last one to my list
6. Using the word 'war' is a quite a turnoff. There are hundreds and thousands of people actually dying in real wars right now and the term is hopelessly over used term, not least the War on/is Terror.
get the cams
this is a good post. all surreptitious surveillance must end. hand held lasers do a job on many cameras, but remember that ENMOD allows time domain technology to be used anywhere in through wall applications and up your very arse! wake up, kill all cameras and get their operators too! Zion has insituted false law via london banking houses in AU and USA and its just a taxation scheme. All law enforcement is TAX enforcement. Fuck all that noise.
Get on your push bike if you can or public transport
Always remember a car is a stress! Not a car. It's not made for you it is made to get you for everything you've got and more. One day I'll write a book on how many ways a motor vehicle will stress you out. But I'm sure you can think of many, including fines.
If you can centralise yourself it helps. Five min to the shops five min to the beach or river, five mini to work, five mini to Uni, five mini to entertainment etc. Not everyone can do it I know. But how many people drive down the road 500 meters to go to visit or to shop? Plenty. I used to do it myself.
If you can take public transport it is better for the environment overall. Let the transport drivers pay the fines because they'll be less likely to be booked.
If you can centralise you also get more time to do whatever, like relax and create.
I gave up the motor 12 years now, no licence etc because every time I pulled up to pay my rent I got a $50 parking fine. I know people will say it was my fault racing to pay the rent with a bunch of kids in my ear but there were mitigating facts I can assure you.
It's not even about breaking the law sometimes it's just about trying to survive and get things done. What about racing the wife off to hospital in an emergency to have a baby? From an isolated place and travelling through many towns and suburbs to get to a hospital when a two way trip for an emergency vehicle would take too long? These are the decisions to make it and not to break the law and the fine doesn't help the financial situation.
At the very least courts should be more willing to listen to mitigation and not be so demanding and insist on demerits and fines that were 'not intentional' mistakes made by the driver trying to perform another task.
Is there any flexabiltiy in the decision making process?
Why not bring people to court and remind them of their wrongdoing in such cases that can be 'reasonably' seen as an error of judgement by the mistaker trying to perform a necessary task without a fine and find out if they have a reasonable excuse including 'forgetfulness'?
If these considerations are not are not taken into account then the system is not just about safety it's also about Greed.
My five cents.
IMC collective - wake up
This anonymous post puts imc at risk by encouraging deliberate possibly dangerous vandalism of safety traffic measures. I don't understand how it can be allowed to go forward as a feature. Especially the second last sentence - it's a doozy. It's a dream post for every right winger who want to shut down IMC.
Also as a solicitor I don't believe the claim 'if you win, you still lose your demerit points'. That sounds totally bogus. As for the other examples, hugely exagerated by the sound of them. This post is a magnet for trouble. Hope I am wrong too.
Anarchy Rules OK?
Surveillance of any kind is BAD. I don't WANT my photo or a video taken every time I go to the shops or the service station or walk along the street or go for a drive. It should be made legal for citizens to photograph criminals in the act with their mobile phones. This kind of evidence should be admissible in court. So many people have instant access to cameras for photographing public phone vandals, etc, that surveillance of the whole population is unnecessary. As it stands you are not allowed to photograph a criminal in the act.
Speed cameras:
http://www.roadsense.com.au/members.html
Regarding the fact that if you win your case in court you still wear the demerit points, I have done that. I beat 2 red light camera alleged offences. I won my case, representing myself. I asked the magistrate what about the demerit points. He said he had no authority to remove them - I would have to approach the RTA. The RTA informed me in their opinion the offence was proven and the points would remain. I am telling you the truth.
I could have gone to the Administrative Decisions Tribunal. More days of work lost. And if I lost the case there I could have had costs awarded against me.
All the people involved in the Balgownie Speed Camera cases won their cases in court and lost the right to have the demerit points penalty removed by the RTA.
Do you think that is just? I don't.
going to court to challenge
going to court to challenge a red light camera - can anyone help?
'This anonymous post.....'
"This anonymous post puts imc at risk....."
So are you opposed to anonymous posts, Mr Ecology Action? (Unusual name that......).
I'll tell you what is at risk: free speech, that's what. Someone who used to contribute here under a pseudonym had quite a bit of credibility under that name and posted a lot of stuff about the government medical office HEALTHQUEST.
Because that person registered an actual 'name', though it wasn't actually their own name, investigators from the N.S.W. government linked all the stories through the name (registered at imc) and decided that the same person had written all the articles - not only about HealthQuest but quite a lot of different topics. They then decided that person is a danger to the N.S.W. government and they zeroed in on a particular activist they had in mind to blame for all those anti-government, anti-Russian-psychiatry posts. There is now an inquiry going on into that person's activities. They may or may not have the actual person who wrote the articles but the person getting the blame is the one that some of the articles referred to. The person has been threatened with action under section 474.17 of the Criminal Code Act. You look it up, you have legal qualifications. Of course 474.17 was never aimed at punishing activists but if this shockingly corrupt Labor government can use it, then it will and the person could be on criminal charges (Federal ones?) even if those charges are eventually thrown out of court. And now the most shocking fact: the person is not even an employee of the government. IMC moderators have seen the letters the activist has received aimed at intimidating them into silence. What do you think of that, Eke?
Re: IMC collective - wake up
loser. i bet you cream your pants at the thought of getting microchipped.
Is this a sabotage post on IMC?
My name is Tom McLoughlin. If you click the user id for ecology action it tells you the full name. I run ecology action.
Second the post has bad aspects and should be edited or failing that deleted.
It is unacceptable to be publishing encouragements to vandalism and especially gun related vandalism Get a grip will you IMC collective. Do you want the site shut down?
You could publish all of these things about demerit points which is a strong argument, and the arguments about safety whether I agree or not.
In my opinion gun control is supported democratically by the vast majority of Australians. But sounds like you have violence and anger issues which comes down to feeling disempowered, ironically even when you are not, which comes down to not really liking yourself. Can't help you there, champ, everyone has to work that one out for themself.
Well here are some tips. Be honest with yourself. Forgive yourself where you stuff up. Make positive action your habit and it will likely all work out better.
I still think it should be deleted and yes I do mean censorship because boundaries of responsibility help people grow up. Just like not playing on the highway.
One theory might be ...
Some one on the IMC collective who has access to the features device went on a drive down the south coast during recent 3 day weekend. They got caught speeding to their shock and annoyance and got the ticket in the mail only recently. That's double demerit points too I think.
It could be very awkward if they have gone over the limit of demerit points.
If that were true, it might look to some like an abuse of editorial access for a personal agenda.
Mind you I have posted on traffic matters too to highlight anomalies and I would be disingenuous if I didn't admit there was an element of retribution in there to the authorities for traffic fines. But that's all the more reason to be careful to post factually and in non inflammatory way so the point is inconsistency and constructive not vindictive. Never promote illegal vandalism which destroys your credibility from the start and just sounds angry and thoughtless.
That's why I blank out the rego number of almost certainly illegally parked police cars (next to empty spots, in front of police stations suggesting cavalier attitude not actually on the job) so the specific officer is not smeared, even while its a bad look to the public.
Gandhi covers the point: Aim for integrity, not simply to win. He was right. It works in the self respect stakes but we all fail to reach his standard of course.
Dumb paranoid bastard!
Geez you are paranoid. If someone suggests attacking speed cameras you think it's a post aimed at having Indymedia shut down. I wonder to what extent you would take your law-abidingness. Under Saddam Hussein, for example, would you dob in a Kurd because it's illegal to have them as neighbours? If a bunch of agents intent on killing a whole family in your street parked illegally and you accidentally took a photo, would you blank out the number plates so they wouldn't be smeared? You would have been useless in the Resistance in France. You would have been useless in all kinds of situations where law breaking was essential to protect human rights. What about Soviet Russia? What would you have done there? Said nothing no doubt, while guarding the forests against weekend shooters. There are brave people out here prepared to break the law and undermine the present corrupt N.S.W. government in order to fight for freedom. You should be really worried about the lies and cover-ups regarding hospitals and public transport and the use of psychiatry and Craig Knowles against whistleblowers. You goody-two-shoes approach is pissing me off. Haven't you ever stood in front of a bulldozer in a forest? Stop being a galah and take a close look at how freedom is being eroded away in this state. Ecologists should be worried about erosion.
erosion, I like that
You are quite an energetic fellow aren't you, and fast thinking too. But you are over reacting. Stop using drugs like alcohol and cigarettes making multinationals rich.
If you looked at the ecology action web site you will notice somewhere I've been arrested 6 times, first time for climbing the opera house sail in 1992. No convictions because I am very very tactical. One was reversed only on appeal to the Court of Criminal Appeal which is starting to get up a bit high like that sail on a greasy early morning.
As regards the bulldozer the answer is yes, with photographic proof. I might try and scan it one day.
Freedom? That reminds me of a great anecdote about a real fascist situation. The hot heads said to this South African ANC academic guy 'what should we do'. He said go and read. They shook their heads in dismay. He thought their ideals were great and their thinking was well 'shite'.
Okay I am condenscending because thanks to Gough and stubborn streak I am over educated. Thanks for calling me a goody too shoes (albeit recycled, not bought a pair of shoes in years now) you've made my day.
Best of luck too. My addiction is caffeine these days. Who knows I might let that go one day but I really doubt it. XO
Tom Arrested: Good Stuff
Good on you Tom! Geez you wouldn't catch me climbing anything, I'm terrified of heights. You done well with the Opera House scaling. As for shoes, one should never wear second hand shoes. If you were to purchase a new pair of Doc Martins at huge expense, you would find they'd last five years, and they're worth repairing when they break. Cheap shoes or second hand shoes are never a 'bargain'. ........Laurel, about to be arrested too.....so it seems.....
PS Speed Cameras: I think it's time to take the law into one's own hands and get rid of them. Does anyone know what I can paint my number plates with to stop them taking a proper photo? Someone once said hair spray.
Did you seriously just
Did you seriously just compared shooting speed cameras in N.S.W. with the French Resistance against Nazi Germanys occupation.
Mate, all you are defending is the right to be stupid.
And you better be careful, cause next time i'll be out there drink driving, trying to break me own speed record down your local raod, i might just run your dumb ass over.
Get real, get serious and chill the f out, not only on the roads.
Ingmar (German) living in Cork, Ireland
It's not what you say it is the way that you say it.
For instance threatening to kill carries a quick ten years.
Inciting violence has its penalties too.
It is their rule of law so we can't beat it.
Best practice is to think of saying what you want to say 're read it' back to yourself and take out any emotional anger the second or third time through by thinking how to say what you want to say without risking the threat of being allegedly incompetent by suggesting that others break the law.
I don't judge this comment as offensive or any breach of any law myself. But it may have been said better.
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You say, "So good on you guys, keep up the great work. Shoot them, blow them up, burn them, stuff them with cans, spray paint them - remember they are cameras so wear a hood and gloves - don't you get caught now.
Power to the people and the N.S.W. state government can go to hell. "
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I would have said, that "I could see why people out of frustration and anger would want to" shoot them, blow them up, burn them and stuff them with cans, spray paint them, but remember if you get angry with them they are cameras so wear a hood and gloves - don't you get caught now.
Power to the people and the N.S.W. state government can go to hell. "
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Do you see the difference? Same message different tact.
If you are facing a quick ten years in court for a comment that has been related to an alleged threat then you will quickly change your mind about re-writing because writing is not just about writing, it is about re reading and re writing.
As for Health Quest articles don't register online unless you're going to make yourself responsible for your posts. On the net you can't run or hide from the authorities. No matter what software is offered you will not be annonymous with a data check.
My 5c again.
your all nuts
there is nothing wrong with breaking the law... we are living in a society, and the nature of the rule of law, in a historic sense, is that it gradually gets more and more restrictive up to a point where a discontinuity of either government or soverignity is forced. this is an inherent historical fact, any law is a relic of the past, and makes sense only in the context of the past, so you shouldnt be surprised when it is found to be in conflict with the future... and you shouldnt be surpised when the people that make laws in your respective un-democratic system refuse to alter the system to change this conundrum... its about power and the retention of said power...
fuck the law... shoot the cameras, vandalise the cameras, do whatever youve gotta do to take them out... peaceful protest has been rendered useless by the powers that be, there is nothing we can do to influence the law makers, there is no community consultation, no democracy... especially when you consider that in this system of government, we will always only have the two main parties in power... and both of them are increasingly similar in recent decades... when they block all peaceful means of participating in democracy, we must turn to other means, it is essential that the ideals of democracy survive, and anyway in which the people can effectively influence the decision making (in lieu of actually making the decisions of couse) is at least some sembalence of democracy, and is better than what we have now....
so fuck the law, fuck the cameras, i wont be a shackled by laws made by those who clearly have no respect for me... the cameras are unjust, they do not serve the ideal of justice in any way shape or form, and the fact that there is little or no redress for the average citizen when the cameras get it wrong just illustrates my point, they are leaving us with no other option but to take action...
Re: your all nuts
amen brother.
speeding... illegal?..aiming radar emitting devices at eyes is
Haven't tried this myself but a guy i knew as a kid was adamant that should he be pulled over for speeding after being zapped by a radar....... he would attempt to sue the government for contravening a UN charter that forbids the intentional directing of radar at his eyes. As we signed up with the UN... they apparently would be in breach of the agreement, end result....$?
Sounds like bullshit, smells like offal....probably is :)
and yes, there's a product in a can you can buy to spray on plates, it causes them to reflect the flash. Anyone can googlesearch "phantomplate".
Please drive responsibly humans........we may have only one life.
I don't think the spray works
I don't believe that spray actually works. In fact (in a rumour I just made up) I hear that the spray actually shows up in speed camera photos and causes the RTA to triple speeding fines.
"one on the F6 which was
"one on the F6 which was shot at with a gun."
Who ever did this is truly a f-ckwit.
Never mind that you might seriously injure someone. It's just to hard to cruise along at 110kmh rather than 140kmh is it? No self discipline?
I've pulled people from cars that crashed into other cars, walls, and poles, at varying speeds, and take it from me, you're going to be a LOT more messed up if you're travelling at 120kmh than at 60kmh. Have you ever noticed that lower speed limits correlate to many obstacles? What an amazing coincidence, hey?
"Traffic fines are very
"Traffic fines are very painful, no doubt about it, especially down the lower socio economic end of the scale. "
So don't speed. You don't have to like the laws. But you have to admit, it's wholly your choice whether you drive over the limit or not. If you get fined, don't complain - you knew it was probably going to happen.
This whole things sounds like a desperate attempt to rid yourselves of responsibility for your actions.
holy hell... ...has it
holy hell...
...has it crossed your delinquent minds that, perhaps if you do the right thing in your bomby commodores that you would not get fined?
Destroying cameras are not the answer...blowing up the Holden will fix plenty.
Die, speed cameras!
People just don't seem to get that these fucking things are booking PARKED CARS for speeding! They make mistakes that a cop driving in a car behind you does not make. It's just a fucking money making exercise for the government. Fuck speed cameras. Kill them.
Cars suck
Stick a fucking puter in your car to record you speed.
Cars suck, they stink, waste space, kill, maim, cause cancer, wreak our balance of trade, burn money, turn their users in to fat pricks and generally make for a horrible living environment... oh yes and they speed.
Get on you bike and stop winging.
Stick a speed camera on every street or modify cars to not speeding.